How APC can survive beyond 2023, by Okorocha

The former governor of Imo State and senator representing Imo West District, Owelle Rochas Okorocha, spoke with reporters in Abuja on crisis in the All Progressives Congress (APC), reconciliation and the future of the ruling party. Correspondents OKODILI NDIDI AND NICHOLAS KALU were there. Excerpts:

 

President Muhammadu Buhari recently appealed to APC stakeholders not to allow the party to die after his tenure. Are they heading the advice?

I have on several occasions expressed my fear about the APC and what will happen to the party after the exit of President Buhari. I have said this repeatedly. My fear is not farfetched. Mr. President has made an appeal to the party leadership, which is what he ought to do.

But, I think the party requires some structural redesign to remain relevant beyond 2023. When we run a party on the basis of sentiments, then we are still going to have the problems the PDP had in the time past.

For God’s sake if someone is not doing a proper job, he should be shown the way out, so that others who can do the job better can take over and do it.

We have more than one hundred million people in this country and you can always find people who can do a particular job. But when we have sentiments, then we are going to have enough challenges. No party ever survives with crisis. On a daily basis you hear about crisis in the APC and anytime, a football team is not doing well, don’t blame the players but blame the coach. If the coach needs to be fired for things to get better, then fire the coach and get a new coach to train the people to win their matches.

So, this is my own suggestion about the appeal by Mr. President, but more has to be done in terms of reorganising the entire party. And a party that does not respect its organs is bound to fail. You don’t have BoT meetings, you don’t have NEC meetings, and you don’t have the organs of the party functioning. You don’t even have committees working. So, that is not a party. So, we need to call a spade a spade and get things right and do things rightly and everybody would be fine for it and the party would pick up, so that the whole idea of forming APC would not be in vain.

You talked about changing the coach. Are you talking about the APC National Chairman, Adams Oshiomhole? If so, why do you think a chairman that has just led the party to victories in elections recently should be changed?

You said they recorded victories. Good. But, I don’t want to speak about these elections. What I am talking about is the internal crisis in the party. What makes a party is not winning a governorship election, but the winning of the Presidency of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Are you telling me that the APC would go into the next presidential election with this kind of state of mind and win election at the national level? You should also know that the presidential influence has a lot to do with the local election of any sitting government in power because nobody wants to be in opposition. So, as far as President Buhari is seated, even the worst of the person in any state already has an advantage even before the election, because there is a sitting government in power that is from his party. What I am saying is that when that seat of Presidency is vacant, who fills it up? That is how you judge the success of any party

There is the issue of the growing number of out of school children. A recent UN statistics put it at about 13 million. How do you think government can check this menace?

You cannot separate the economy of Nigeria from this very out of school children problem. The out of school children and the economy are related in one way or the other, as well as violence, Boko Haram insurgency and kidnapping and what have you.

Because wherever you see poverty, there is a high tendency of violence and crisis, they are interwoven. I have said several times on the floor of the Senate that this is a time bomb waiting to explode.

The Boko Haram we are seeing today did not start on that very day Boko Haram made the first attack. Boko Haram has been existing 30 years before then, when children were not going to school.

So that is the product of out of school children for a very long time and now I am sure that time we may have had only three million, but now we have 13 million and still counting.

The impact of these 13 million out of school children will not be felt now until 40 years to come or 20 years to come, when these people would also be a time bomb for that next generation of Nigeria. So, there is cause for serious concern.

As an individual I have done what I can do by building several schools and having over 22, 000 indigent children going to my school without having to pay for school fees across this nation. I have schools in six states in the northern part of this country and others from other parts of this country.

It is prominent in the northern part of this country. And if you look at the places with the highest level of out of school children, just check the poverty rate, it also very high. So, they are correlated. But, one thing that Nigeria has failed to understand is that the money coming from oil can no longer sustain our economy and because of that the problem would not stop and there is no magic to it.

The economy has to be right to address this issue of out of school children and the only answer to it is one, cut down on the cost of governance and secondly, to diversify the economy.

But, meanwhile the immediate quick one is to cut down the cost of governance and if you remember the last time I said one Senator per state, it created a hullaballoo across the whole nation.

But I see that as a sacrifice. Wise nations like Italy, three days after I made the suggestion, their National Assembly on their own cut down the number of their legislators, Senators and House of Reps to cut down one billion Euros for their economy.

The executive also has to make huge sacrifices to save some funds and direct it towards the problem of out of school children.

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It is a major concern. Right now, the Rochas Foundation is partnering with the Refugee Commission because we are trying to introduce what is called tent and teach. Just emergency tent and teach the children.

Get the teachers within them and from outside to teach the children and keep them busy at least to know how to read and write, because within the refugee camp, there are over one million of them who are not going to school and they have been there and they are getting used to not going to school which is a danger on its own.

So, what I suggest outside cutting down cost of governance, is to rejig our economy, by diversifying the economy in the areas of agriculture, solid minerals and tourism, as a long term measure, and declare emergency in the educational sector and call good spirited individuals.

Okay, how many schools can you build? Can you take 20,000 or 30,000 and get tax exempt? Do you know since I have been running the Rochas Foundation, I have never gotten one naira tax exempt in Nigeria and today I have more than 4000 graduates and 2000 undergraduates and up to 22,000 children in our schools? So, we don’t even encourage philanthropy in Nigeria.

Nations encourage their wealthy people to give back to the society. But, in this country, the more you give the more you are a suspect.

They either think you must have duped somebody or done something illegal or something dirty to make money and that you are only trying to clean up your money but meanwhile you are doing this because you are concerned about the wellbeing of ordinary Nigerians.

When I started Rochas Foundation 20 years ago, most people felt I was doing that because of politics and I said to them, I couldn’t have built schools in Sokoto, Kano, Zaria, Bauchi, Adamawa, Jos and Ibadan for political reasons because I was running for governor not President.

But I saw a concern and I did that and they say it is politics. Now I challenge every Nigerian, if Rochas Foundation is politics, let everybody play it.

It is better for our nation. So, time has come when we must speak out the truth in this country or we might be causing danger for generations yet unborn. So, the issue of out of school children is not something you can take very lightly.

Can’t you use your office to pay attention to what you did and the need for this tax exemption for philantrophy….

You cannot make a law to favor yourself. It would be obvious. If I say that on the floor of the Senate, the first impression Nigerians will be that I am doing so because I have a foundation.

So, I would not even go into that. But I will do what I can do for my spiritual satisfaction that at least I have given back to the society. So, that is the challenge. Government alone cannot do this because the problem is overwhelming.

As a member of the Senate Committee on FCT, it seems most of the major agencies of government are concentrated in the city centre, at the detriment of the hinterlands like Kuje. How do you think this can be addressed?

The population is increasing and the facility that was available for Abuja was not meant for more than one million people or 500,000. But today, Abuja is growing at a geometric progression and the resources are not there to meet up with these challenges.

When you say there is power shortage, it is not that there is no light, there is light, it is just that the number of people scrambling for the light is more than the light itself.

If Abuja population reduces to 100,000 today, we are going to have 30 hours of power not even 24 hours. This is why Abuja must be handled differently.

The spirit with which Dubai was built has to be the same spirit with which Abuja should be built. Abuja by nature is the capital of Nigeria and it is not a cheap city.

To build Abuja, you must adopt the concept of Other Peoples’ Money (OPM) because this budget can never meet up. And you must know that land is a capital and as wealth set aside for further wealth.

So, it must be run like a pure business to get Abuja right because people must pay for these facilities, either by the acquisition of land or whatever or the taxes they pay, to give them the service they require but if you keep waiting for the Federal Government to give you out of their lean budget, another money to develop Abuja, the situation would get worse.

The same problem like you said is increasing and every Nigerian has the freedom of movement. Whenever they see small light, they would cluster there and the light would go down because the power is not increasing as the population is increasing.

And when you have these types of neighborhoods, they constitute serious crime. Neighborhoods without light, water and other basic amenities is a serious security risk.

So, something must be done to raise money to run the affairs of Abuja including security. And Abuja can raise money itself to handle the affairs of Abuja as a state capital.

What is your take on the issue of border closure?

Government has said it is a temporary measure that will enable us look inwards. I have always said that the border closure is more or less a campaign, creation of awareness for Nigerians to begin to look inwards on how to feed themselves.

We cannot stretch it for too long because Nigerians would always have a way to bring these goods in and when they do, through a tedious and dubious means, the cost will become very high.

So, it is neither here nor there. The point I am making is that it is a campaign by the FG that look, you cannot live all your life importing goods, then you produce nothing and become a consuming nation.

That is what I said. It is going to get worse because now that we have signed into this global trade arrangement with other African countries.

So, it is a 50-50 thing as far as I am concerned. One, whether there is need to start looking inwards is proper, but the hardship it creates is also there.

That is why I believe it is going to be very temporary. Government on their part should also provide alternatives as quickly as possible, so people can start producing something.

But how do you go into production without power, another major problem. So, my idea would have been let us create an economic zone for manufacturing and take at least 1000MW or 2000MW of power out of the 7000MW we have to that area.

2000 should be given for production. Not residential, only production. So, factories can start coming up, while we manage the rest for residential until things start getting better. You must always cut your coat according to material available, not according to your size.

Nigeria must device a means of tacking this. It is all about system, it is very painful that you go from Lagos to Owerri, to Ogboko my village and go to Katsina and Maiduguri and come back to Cross River, anywhere you see smoke coming out, it is a smoke of consumption and not production.

If you go to China and you see smoke pumping, they are producing to stabilize the economy of China. And this is employment we are talking about.

Even when the borders are closed, we should fast track the alternative ways for production to start to cushion the effect on the ordinary people.

In fact all that we know is government create jobs, give us light, give us security, agriculture, aviation, do this and that, no one asks government where the money is coming from.

And if we don’t take some immediate action, the situation would get worse, because in the next few years the population of Nigeria would have increased and demand on the system would be more.

In 2050 we would be about 400 million people scrambling for 7000MW of power, while America has gone from 700, 000 to almost one trillion Megawatts of power. So the whole power we use in Nigeria is not up to the power of the fire service department of New York.

So what do we do, we must agree at one point to make sacrifices by all concerned both the governors and the governed. Take for instance how much have we made this year’s budget? Almost eleven trillion naira, out of that, 81 percent is salary and welfare.

Are we a serious nation? We are not a serious nation because we are even eating what belongs to future generations of Nigerians. And you cannot stop workers from chanting their songs of solidarity and increase in salary.

But one good thing I know about the North, especially the Islamic world is that a typical Muslim is a man of conscience, who believes in justice, unity and equity and that is the tripod upon which Islam is rested upon.

So that is the only hope, if you like the word, for anybody from the southern part of this country to contest election.

For the Southeast, the North would naturally feel that look, the Presidency having gone round, let us for the purpose of equity, allow someone from the Southeast be the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

It is only on that basis that we can have a Nigerian President of Igbo extraction because the Igbo alone cannot make themselves President.

So the quicker they get themselves together and start shopping for support from the North and other parts of this country, the better it is to realize the dream.

But I know for sure that one day we shall come to that point when positions of who becomes President would not be based on the sentiments of where you come from or the tribe our religion.

But for as long as we keep singing about tribe or religion, then we would never get it right. The issue there is that we need somebody who can move this nation forward.

Someone who can guarantee food on the table of the common man, create jobs and change Nigeria to become the Dubai of Africa or the Japan of Africa.

What Nigeria needs most is that man who would come in as a president and help unite Nigeria. Just as we all see ourselves as one during the football matches.

When you are sick, you don’t go to a doctor because he is Hausa or Igbo or Yoruba. You go because the doctor can give you the right medication. In fact if your senior brother is a quack doctor, you will run in the night to meet a proper doctor.

 

 

 

QUESTION: What is your assessment of the 9thSenate

ANS: Gentlemen of honour, I refer to the 9thsenate as let-peace-be Senate. It is not there to fight the executive or quarrel with the judiciary or even quarrel among themselves.

Whatever that can make peace be for us to move forward let it be. That is how I can assess the 9thSenate for now. There is a very cordial relationship and teamwork among the Senator.

Though sometimes individual differences can occur but you have your opinions and know why you express them, you have to also look at the opinion of others and see how you can marry your opinion with the larger expectation of the National Assembly. It is a peaceful Senate.

 

QUESTION: What is you take on the procurement Act?

ANS: The Procurement Act is a major setback for infrastructural development in the Federal Republic of Nigeria. I think those who came about that Act did so thinking they were going to use it to curb corruption, but the procurement Act itself is the enzyme that catalyzes the corrupt practices in the Federal Republic of Nigeria, because nobody is interested in getting the job done.

Everybody is interested in the paperwork than getting the job done. And the time it is taking for one contract to be executed under this Act, it would take you almost one year to prepare the process of awarding contract, even if it is for N10 million, and so it makes it quite difficult for the system to work.

I think that we create a clause in the Act that allows for emergency declaration of projects, so that you can get a job done. I suffered that in Imo State, we call that due process. But look at what my system has given me.

Rochas system has given me in terms if infrastructural development in Imo State, which has never happened in that state since creation.

But when you come with this due process then they would start with identifying the projects, consultancy, advertisement, first meeting, second meeting, proposal, this and that and before you know it, the contract becomes 10 times the original price, but it is correct because the minutes of the meeting are all correct.

And so you are free from any indictment because you have followed what is called due process.

There are some roads we have not been able to fix in this country that if the money meant for it had been released, the job would have been finished but today because of due process and style of everything, sometimes they say bring bank guarantee, and bank guarantee seems to be the worst because when they take the bank guarantee, they are making money for the bank.

The bank does not release the money. In fact they are praying that the project does not work, so they can use the money for other commercial businesses.

So it is a complicated system. I believe that if you have trusted a man with authority to the level of being a governor or a President, give him the task and say we want this done.